False Assumptions Produce False Conclusions

6 Comments

1. 

   caraboska

   December 30, 2009 at 4:03 am

   I admit I was wondering why there were so few comments listed on that previous post… I gather there were a bunch that needed to be suppressed by reason of their excessively argumentative tone? Anyway, like I said before, I personally don’t have a tree because of the pagan associations.

   There is one difference, though, between the pagan use of decorated trees (carved or otherwise) and the Christian use of it, namely: I have never yet (thank God) met a Christian who actually worships their Christmas tree. That is why I am not actively bringing up the topic with my Christian friends. But yeah, if an opportunity for discussion presents itself, then I probably will share my views. And the same applies to other pagan customs.

   But to return to the point about the trees: if you know any people who claim to be Christians and are actually worshiping their trees, please by all means let that be known. It would certainly be something worth pointing out even to those who do not engage in that kind of error.

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2. 

   Abdullah

   December 30, 2009 at 9:09 am

   The comments weren’t overly argumentative but if I make a post about a Christmas tree then there is no need to bring Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa sallam, the Quran or any other unrelated topic into the discussion. Especially if the rest of the comment has nothing to do with Christmas trees. That tells me they are trying to hijack the discussion and I don’t appreciate it.

   I have to say that I do respect that you have left off this practice. I have never met any Christian that did not put up a tree. We even had one in our church.

   Do Christians worship their Christmas trees? That depends on how you define worship. In the classic Christian understanding of the term then no I have never come across a Christian who prayed to or asked their tree for things. However, the Islamic understanding is much more comprehensive.

   Ibn Taymiyyah gave this definition:
   “Worship (al-’Ibaadah) is a comprehensive term covering everything that Allaah loves and is pleased with – whether saying, or actions, outward and inward.”

   We are at all times worshippers, including the times we are sleeping. If a person goes to sleep, so that they can wake up perform their prayers and take care of their duties, then their sleep is for the sake of God. If a person goes to sleep, so they can wake to create mischief, then their sleep is for the sake of their mischief. The former is worshipping God by his sleeping and he will be rewarded. The later is worshipping his evil desires by sleeping and he will be punished.

   You see, when the Christian puts up a tree in defiance of God he is worshipping something other than God. It might be the tree, giving it an undo right to be in the house, decorating it beautifully, gathering around it, staring at it for extended periods of time. All those things are worship and all things that do happen. Or it might be a family custom the people are worshipping, perhaps they don’t really like the tree but the custom dictates that it must be there. Or they are worshipping their ego by trying to get the biggest, best and most beautiful tree to beat their neighbour. Or any number of other things.

   If a Christian friend of yours bought an idol in the shape of Buddha, then bought it beautiful clothing, gave it a prominent position in the house, surrounded it with beautiful lighting at night and spent hours gathered around it, would you warn them of this evil? If you would then you should understand that they have more right to be made aware of the Christmas tree, since there is the possibility that they are ignorant about its pagan history.

   Enjoin what is right and forbid what is evil.

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3. 

   caraboska

   December 30, 2009 at 9:49 pm

   Odd that you mention Buddha. A certain member of my family (with whom I do not live, thank God) actually has a small Buddha statue in their home. They claim that they find it inspiring. God only knows why. They do not buy pretty clothes for it or surround it with lights or sit and gaze at it. At least that. So I am not convinced that they are actually – intentionally – worshiping it, although I certainly did point out to them that it appears inconsistent with their profession of Christianity.

   There is the point, however, that this is not the only thing in the person’s life that is inconsistent with a profession of Christianity – to such an extent that I would refer to them as ‘someone who identifies as Christian’ and leave it at that. I have tried over the years to warn the person about these other matters – which are very serious indeed – but there is a total lack of communication. At this point, all one can do is pray for the person and leave them in God’s hands.

   But to return to the matter of the trees. Especially among Protestants, they apparently are not such a big deal here where I am as they are over in the States. A family that I am friendly with normally invites me for dinner on Christmas Eve and Easter. They know that they should not expect me to participate in pagan customs and often these are completely absent (what they do on their own time, I don’t know).

   Normally, they do not have a Christmas tree, that I am aware of. This year, as far as I could tell, they did not either. So it was a shock when the lady of the house inquired how I liked their ‘Christmas tree’. It was a small, completely unadorned arrangement of evergreen branches, not even shaped like a tree, that was sitting quietly on top of their bookshelves and being decorative. No one paid any particular attention to it other than the lady of the house’s inquiry. There were no presents under or near it, nothing to suggest that it was anything more than a decoration. And we are generally permitted to have plants in our homes, last time I checked, so I thought nothing of it.

   During the Christmas season, the church we attend does normally have even two quite large trees decorating the (quite large) space used for worship. I don’t know if they did so this year because I haven’t been there yet since the beginning of the holiday season – and if they did, no one thought it noteworthy enough to mention it to me when I was over at their place for dinner. The church also normally has seasonal flowers decorating that space – but that is every week, not just during holidays.

   I have not thus far attempted to discuss it with those responsible for its presence, and right now I will make an attempt, based on what I know about them, to speculate what their reply might be. Probably they would say the following:

   1) The really big problem would be if they were worshiping the trees. Which they are not in any overt sense. Yes, they do decorate them, but otherwise they do not pay any particular attention to them, except perhaps to take care of them on an ongoing basis the way one takes care of any plant that is present in one’s living or other space.

   2) The question of whether a given practice is pagan or not is decided by the intent with which one engages in it. So they would say that since their intent has nothing to do with worshiping the tree or any other idol (e.g. nature worship or something), that there is nothing wrong with it.

   3) If we press the point that that verse in Jeremiah could be intepreted as forbidding the setting up of trees and decorating them, and defining this action as ‘by definition’ pagan in all instances, no doubt a discussion would ensue concerning what the Christian attitude should be towards the Law – the letter as opposed to the spirit – and the point would come up that taking the wrong attitude in this matter could lead to spiritual death rather than spiritual life. Which is a matter that cannot be discussed in a short time frame and for the present purposes is probably best left for another moment.

   Probably the only productive way to discuss the matter with them would be to get them to ask the question for themselves as to whether they aren’t at very least giving the appearance of evil by doing this.

   Although here, the point would probably come up that most people are only dimly if at all aware of the pagan origins of this custom, so that there is no ‘appearance of evil’.

   But there is always the matter that people often do engage in the subtle types of idolatry that you mention above (paying excessive attention to the tree or to custom in general, indulging their ego by means of its splendor, etc.), so that engaging in this custom in the presence of such people would be what Christians call a ‘stumbling block’.

   No doubt you have heard this expression before, but for the benefit of anyone here who might not be familiar with this item of ‘Christian jargon’, this means anything that either encourages sin or unbelief or discourages the doing of good or belief.

   God willing, I will have an opportunity in the near future to talk about this matter with the person who is responsible for, among other things, procuring flowers for the church services, so that I gather she is probably also responsible for procuring the trees under discussion. Will let you know what develops.

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4. 

   Abdullah

   December 31, 2009 at 9:23 am

   I mentioned Buddha because, like Christmas trees, it is an idol that is commonly brought in the homes of Christians and given a prominent place there. I almost wrote Shiva for the same reason. Also did you ever see the picture of Obama with his idol Hanuman?

   http://www.time.com/time/politics/whitehouse/photos/0,27424,1811278,00.html

   I actually gave thought to your number three even before making this post and considered bringing it up with you. For Muslims that are not familiar with this aspect of Christianity the separation of the Law and the Spirit is very strange. (I must admit that I still find it strange). For Muslims the Law is an aid to spirituality and not a hindrance.

   Why would God dictate something as a means of guidance, only later to us that ‘guidance’ as a hindrance? Moreover, it does not appear that it is a concept taught by Jesus, who could have been the only authority to teach something so alien to all of God’s past teachings.

   To get back on topic, I think this is a case where following the Law is the only way to preserve your spirituality. Surely, doing things that are disliked by God are more of a hindrance.

   What is the consequence of people adopting a practice that was once pagan idol worship? People will inadvertently fall into the same trap of idolatry. There is an interesting story from Islamic texts that details how a group of people first fell into idolatry. InshaAllah, I will post it up later.

   Is there any harm for the person to leave off suspected pagan practices? Perhaps it is best to err on the side of caution.

   I am looking forward to hearing about your discussion.

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5. 

   caraboska

   January 1, 2010 at 12:38 am

   About Buddha statues in Christian homes, I guess I must have led a sheltered life or something, because I only remember that one person whom I mentioned before as having such an item. Every other Christian that I can recall does not have any Buddha images at all, much less give them a prominent place. Here in my 95% Roman Catholic country, the problem is rather pictures and statues of Mary, mother of Jesus…

   Saw pics of Obama’s lucky charms. I actually have a problem with the idea that he has any lucky charms at all – much less one of a… monkey idol? :O :O :O The gambling chit is disturbing too. Goes to show no political candidate is perfect (this photo was part of a series on candidates’ lucky charms).

   About the Law, even the Christians I am familiar with – who definitely do for the most part make that distinction between living by law and living by the Spirit – believe that the Law is of spiritual benefit. The question is the proper use of it. In general, it is viewed as being of use primarily to those who are not yet believers – to make them aware of their sins and their need for redemption.

   After that, however, the view is that while the Law has fulfilled its purpose, the standard is now even higher – the behavior of some who identify as Christians notwithstanding. Because we find out that ‘thou shalt not kill’ means much more than ‘thou shalt not slit thy neighbor’s throat’, that ‘thou shalt not commit adultery’ means much more than ‘thou shalt not sleep with thy neighbor’s wife’. Etc. This is definitely from Jesus – specifically, the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7, in particular chapter 5).

   Another thing ‘straight from Jesus’ is his approach to the Sabbath, which is reported on in some detail in three of the Gospels. For those who are reading here and are not ultra-familiar with the concept of the Sabbath, the Torah teaches that one is to rest (i.e. do no work) on the seventh day of each week – for a number of reasons that we can go into some other time if anyone is interested. Those who are involved in the teaching of Jewish law have elaborated an entire system defining what activities are to be considered as work, and which are not – based on the reasons that the Sabbath is to be kept in the first place.

   At any rate, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke report an incident where Jesus’ disciples were caught engaging in an activity on the Sabbath day which was defined by the traditional interpretation of Jewish law as work – namely, gathering food in a field.

   In the gospel account, Jesus first of all refers to a story that was familiar to every Jewish person, since it is reported in the Old Testament and apparently refers to an actual historical event:

   David (the one who later became king of Israel and is considered a prophet in Islam) was in a situation of mortal danger (i.e. someone was actively pursuing him and trying to kill him) and took refuge in the temple. He and his men were hungry.

   The problem was that the only food available in the temple at that moment was some bread which was ordained by the Torah to be used only for the temple worship, and could only be eaten by an authorized person as defined in the Torah (i.e. a priest, which David was not).

   The priest gave David and his men some of the bread, even though it was in principle against the Law, an offense against the holiness of the Temple, and Jesus makes it clear that all of this notwithstanding, the priest did in fact do the right thing.

   He also points out that when the priests make the appointed sacrifices in the Temple on the Sabbath, as is commanded in the Torah, they are in fact in principle doing work. But they are commanded to do it anyway.

   Then Jesus makes two more points:

   1) The Sabbath was made for humanity, not humanity for the Sabbath;

   2) The Son of Man (as Jesus often referred to himself in the Gospels) is Lord of the Sabbath.

   In other words, he was making an interpretation of the Law, and then stating that he has the right to make authoritative interpretations of the Law concerning the Sabbath. Hardly an assertion that was to gain him favor with the established religious authorities of his time.

   And keeping the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments which form the basic obligations of the Jews in their covenant with God. So we can see here that Jesus’ exegesis and practice of the Law was not exactly in line with the traditional rabbinical one. This of course also did not earn him any favor with the religious establishment.

   But I think that these examples of Jesus’ treatment of the Law are in fact consistent with the more detailed treatment found in other portions of the New Testament, especially the letters of Paul. For that matter, Paul even appeals to certain examples from the Old Testament which undermine the traditional understanding of the Law.

   So in a certain sense, this kind of thinking about the Law – that justification before God actually happens outside of the Law, and is by faith (‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness’) – is actually present all through the Bible, though especially in the Old Testament, you do have to look for it.

   However, I would say that your last idea (‘Is there any harm for the person to leave off suspected pagan practices? Perhaps it is best to err on the side of caution.’) is probably closest to the truth as far as my personal reasoning for not having a tree. And, for that matter, for not having any religious images in my home – because of that being a particular weak point for many people in my surroundings.

   I want to mention something I realized a while back. We are not supposed to make images. We are only supposed to, as it were, be images ourselves. This means that we are supposed to reflect attributes of God in the manner of our living – so, we are to live just, holy, loving, forgiving, wise, etc. lives. About which attributes we of course find out in Scripture, as well as experiencing God’s concrete manifestations of His attributes in history. To me this is much more interesting than any decoration in my home.

   I have an appointment to talk to that person I mentioned tomorrow afternoon on the phone. Watch this space for more info :)

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6. 

   caraboska

   January 1, 2010 at 4:36 pm

   I had originally planned to talk to this person on the phone this afternoon, but in the end I found a quiet moment to bring the matter up right after church. It was a short conversation which I will treat more as a matter of fact-finding, as it has become clear to me that is the right thing to do: get the facts and think very carefully before I make any further moves, lest I end up doing more harm than good. The matter is a good bit more complicated than I had anticipated.

   To summarize very briefly what I found out, it was a pleasant surprise to discover that the person actually is aware of these verses and grieved by the presence of the tree (there is only one this year instead of two- at least that…). The problem is that they are not the only person who has a say in the matter.

   They think that if they try to bring the matter up with other parties who are in some way responsible for the tree’s presence, it will change nothing and the effort will be like ‘jousting with windmills’. And given what I know of at least one of those other parties, I completely understand why the person I spoke with thinks that.

   Apparently, however, my assessment of the situation is correct: no one is actually worshiping the tree in any way. So it seems that it is better, if I do end up speaking with anyone else about it, to approach the matter more as one of getting rid of pagan customs or at very most idolatry of custom.

   I need to do more thinking in private, have answers additionally to a fair number of issues which are only indirectly related to the tree, before I make any further moves. One problem is that I am not a member of this church and have to keep in mind that I am a guest. Watch this space for more info.

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