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Christians in the Park

Religion 18 Jul 2009

As Salaam Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

This past weekend, as my wife tried to rest after having given birth earlier in the week, some people were making a terrible noise in the park that is adjacent to our house. I went to investigate and as I approached the offenders I realised it was as my wife thought, Christians singing and dancing in the park.

I went and complained that their live band was very loud and it was keeping my wife up. As if taking my complaint seriously, there was a bit of activity in an attempt to turn the noise down. Although, I couldn’t be sure if the volume was any lower or not as I was right in front of the band, shouting to be heard and shouted at so that I could hear.

With my complaint having been registered, I turn my attention to debate with the ‘ministers’ and ‘evangelists’ that made up this small group of Christians. It was too good of an opportunity to pass by, so near my house. Refuting dodgy Christian beliefs is something that I have grown to really enjoy and over the past year or so have grown considerably more confident. My new found confidence is owing to the fact that I am rarely presented with an argument from them that I have not heard before and those arguments are extremely weak. In this post I shall give my thoughts on three of the most common arguments put forward by Christians, in my experience. All three were presented to me on this day in the park.

I was soon surrounded by six to eight Christians.

Before I get into the three arguments, I want to share some funny, the odd type, comments that were directed at me.

First, I was criticised for coming and ‘crashing the party’ and accused of being a troublemaker. Excuse me dear Christian but you are having church in a public park and you woke my wife up with loud music and you were calling your little concert an outreach programme. Now your upset that I came? Did you expect that everyone who showed up in the park that day hold hands and sing along and say, ‘oh my gosh how could I have been so wrong!’? If you conducted your service in your church quietly then you would not have had me in the middle of you all.

Second, I was asked why I wanted to attend a public Christian outreach programme. To which, I replied, ‘So that I can come and invite you Christians to Islam’. A comment that caused me to suffer a lot of strange looks.

Third, I was asked why I came to invite them to Islam, since God did not tell me to do so. My dear Christian, God did tell me to do so. How hypocritical of them to suggest that they can ‘outreach’ to non-Christians but I cannot ‘outreach’ to Christians.

Forth, I was accused of inviting Christians to Islam based on hate, whereas they invite based on love. My dear Christian, what is more loving and more compassionate than me trying to save you from the punishment of Hell? I can easily leave Christians to be blissfully ignorant and wipe my hands of them. That would be easier for me. I don’t like confrontation. No, I go and invite them to Islam to help them, to save them from something they will not be able to bear.

Fifth and this was the strangest of the odd questions/comments put to me, I was asked why would I read a Biblical commentary when trying to understand the Bible. My dear Christian, I read commentaries so that I truthfully understand Christian beliefs and Christian dogmas and so that I do not taint that understanding with my personal bias. Moreover, what is wrong with being well informed? Is it your goal to keep Christians and non-Christians ignorant about the troubled history of Biblical text?

With those five strange comments out of the way lets get into the three common arguments for Christianity and Against Islam.

Early into my discussion with a Christian man, who obviously had something to do with the day’s events, a Christian woman was presented to me as a former Muslim come Bible believer. After a few questions about how long I have been Muslim and what sect of Christianity that I came from, she asked me ‘Do you know whether your going to heaven or not?’. Those Muslims who engage Christians should be immediately aware of this question. As soon as I heard it I doubted whether this person had ever been Muslim because it is such a missionary question. If she was a Muslim then she was either extremely ignorant about Islamic theology or she was wilfully being deceitful, either way not good for those Christians who thought that she was their trump card.

This question is intended to confirm the Muslim’s doubt about his own afterlife, while presenting the idea of an assured place in heaven without the need to make any sacrifices for the sake of Allah. In typical fashion the Christian is hoping to divert the conversation from the important matter of how we distinguish truth from falsehood. Who cares what promises a religion makes to its potential adherents if the religion is false? Tomorrow a man can make up his own religion and tell others, ‘if you just believe, you will be saved’. His promise is false and his words are meaningless because he does not have the power to save you or himself. Believing in him will only cause harm and will not benefit. The Christian needs to understand that our goal must always be towards the truth and not empty promises of reward or false warnings of punishment.

That aside lets answer her question. What is the answer my dear Muslims? Do we know if we are going to paradise or not?

The answer is of course yes. We know that we are going to paradise providing we fulfil the conditions laid out in the Qur’an. Allah said in His Noble Qur’an:

Allah has promised those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, that for them there is forgiveness and a great reward. [5:9]

Every Muslim should know his own condition. If he rejects all false gods, accepts the one true God, worships Him alone, fulfils the commandments of salaah, saum, zakaah, hajj and enjoins the good and forbids the evil, with sincerity then his afterlife is secured. If the Christian is troubled by the requirement of preforming good deeds, then they should know that Jesus himself spoke of the requirement of fulfilling the commandments in order to attain paradise in Matthew 19:16-24. Moreover, our actions are directly related to our heart. If our heart is pure then our actions will be pure. If the Christian is troubled by the requirement of sincerity then they should know that the opposite of sincerity is insincerity and the only things that cause insincerity are doubt and hypocrisy. Why must God accept worship that was not done in order to praise Him but for some other less than admirable purpose?

The Christian woman protested, ‘but your “mulla” cannot tell you whether you will go to heaven or not’. I found her use of the word “mulla” quite interesting and as I was thinking about writing this post, I contemplated on which types of people use the word “mulla” in this context. I came up with, Christian, Shia, Qadiyyani, and Prevezi. The thread which ties all these groups of people together is their opposition to the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa sallam. One more reason for me doubting her supposed apostasy. Getting back to her objection, of course the “mulla” cannot tell me whether or not I will go to heaven. He doesn’t have that authority. It is between my Lord and myself. No man living today has the ability to know what another man keeps secrete in his heart. A man’s outward appearance might be Islam but in his heart he rejects it. The other people in his community will count him among the Muslims and pray Janazah for him when he dies, but he will be dumped into Hell as a rejecter of truth. Is there any denying this?

She informs me that I have been deceived by the devil and then retreated to pray for me a few feet away.

My attention then turned back to the Christian man and inquired what are the proofs for the correctness of Christianity. He replied, ‘the amazing healing done in Jesus’ name’. (Please spare a thought now for little Ava Worthington.) His comment came as no surprise to me, I have been hearing this argument since the first time I debated a Christian. Consider the countless non-Christians in the world who live long and healthy lives, all without the need to ask Jesus anything and consider all those non-Christians who fall ill with terrible sicknesses but somehow recover again without the need of Jesus. My wife’s aunt comes to mind, she was diagnosed with cancer and then she recovered. Is that then a proof for the correctness of Islam? While researching ASD, I came across the story of a young boy who suffered from severe autism. In an effort to help him overcome his son’s illness the boy’s father took him to Mongolia to ride horses and be treated by shaman. The boy has made considerable progress and has surpassed his peers in many areas. My own mother has been learning reiki and regularly visits nursing homes and has reported that people who could not get out of bed have been able to do so because of reiki. She now complains that she cannot cope with all the requests from residents looking forward to being treated by her. The claim of great healing powers is not unique to Christianity and the only thing this Christian does is divert the conversation from the important matter of how we distinguish truth from falsehood.

Moreover, according to the Christians it was Jesus who said in John 5:30, ‘I can of mine own self do nothing’. If he could do nothing, how can we expect that he can cure anyone today? Why did he let poor little Ava Worthington die?

After refuting this erroneous idea, I put the question to him again, ‘what are the proofs for the correctness of Christianity’. He replied, ‘his own reformed lifestyle’.

Does the Christian think that the devil is stupid or clever? I put forward that he is very clever. Even in the begining of his unholy mission he was able to convince Adam and Eve to disobey their Lord and he has had a lot of experience since then.

What is the worst crime according to God? To disbelieve in God. God forgives all types of sin but what He does not forgive is disbelieving. Even the murdering rapist has a chance to attain paradise but the disbeliever has no chance.

Consider this hypothetical situation, there is a young man who has had somewhat of a troubled past. Perhaps he was a drug dealer and has been arrested a few times but is starting to feel regret, not only for getting into trouble but also for adding to the misery of his society by selling drugs. This young man searches his soul and realises that there is a God and He must be obeyed. Satan, in this young man’s case, must be feeling distraught because he is about to fail his mission to keep him away from the worship of God. Quickly and cleverly he introduces a pagan faith to the man and even helps to reform his life and tells the young man, ‘see there is good in this religion, look how you have changed’. Of course this person must think, ‘what a wonderful religion’ but he inadvertently fell into polytheism and was duped into commiting a more serious crime than he was commiting before, disbelieving in God. Satan can then walk away triumphantly. He successfully diverted the young man’s enthusiasm for righteousness into enthusiasm for worshiping false gods. Satan will have yet another companion in the fire of Hell, just because that person could not understand that a reformed lifestyle is not a proof for the correctness of faith.

These are three very common arguments used by Christians that I have come across. I do find it interesting that this person did not put forward the Bible as a proof for his religion. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a single example of when a Christian actually used the Bible as a proof for his faith. I can remember one debate I had that went on for hours and a very large portion was me trying to convince him that the Bible had a place in his religious beliefs. I know very odd but such are Christians.

Here is a question for the Muslim and the Christian, how do we, humans, distinguish between truth and falsehood? What is the proof for our respective faiths? I look forward to any discussion, inshaAllah.

About the author

Abdullah

I am Abu Sabah Abdullah Al-Amreeki, a revert to Islam from Christianity, a husband to my beautiful wife, a father to my amazing children, an aspiring daiee and a wannabe Web developer.

4 Comments

  1. Dawud
    July 20, 2009 at 7:54 am

    Assalaamu alaykum akhi,

    I have come across many “ex-muslims” in my time in Da’wah, must be a close to two dozen and of these all have proved liars except for two, one of whom was a former brailwee and another a former rafidi shi’a so they never understood islam at all.

    I normally am pretty harsh with such people, ask them a few very simple questions which if they cannot answer are proof of their falsehood of being ex-muslims and then call them liars in front of everyone and ask them and the whole group of people who are there, “why would you follow a religion that teaches you to lie?”

    assalaamu alaykum,
    Abu Abdillah


  2. Abdullah
    July 20, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Wa Alaykum Salaam Wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,

    My only regret was not ‘investigating’ whether she really was an apostate. I allowed her to question my religious background and even gave the short answer why I left Christianity but it didn’t occur to me to do the same to her. My view at the time was, ‘she’s an apostate, and?, What does that matter to me?’.

    Unlike Christianity, Islam doesn’t have any dirty little secrets. That’s why I haven’t come across an apostate real or otherwise that had any significant insight.


  3. caraboska
    August 6, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Some sundry thoughts, in no particular order:

    1. I think you are right to question whether these people were really Muslims when they converted to Christianity. Indeed, any time someone converts to any religion from another one, that question can be asked. Now I happen to be a Christian, so I am most familiar with and knowledgeable about Christian beliefs. I’ve seen probably dozens of testimonies of people who claimed to be Christian before converting to Islam, but it is clear from reading that they never really were believing Christians.

    The bottom line: if we believe in something 100%, then we don’t leave. It’s just the nature of belief.

    2. I am very familiar with the idea of not using commentaries when studying the Bible. And I think that just as our biases can influence our view of what the Bible teaches, so the commentator’s views can influence their interpretation of the Bible. So that I fail to see how using commentaries is going to help.

    I think the only way around this is to read just the text – the whole text. Preferably in the original; if not, in as many translations as possible. Before we come to a conclusion about what any of it says. Because there are so many little details which superficially don’t have to do with whatever issue it is we are considering, so that they wouldn’t show up if we pulled out a concordance, but in fact they have plenty to do with it.

    And beyond this, we need to observe common sense rules of hermeneutics – how to interpret a text (any text) – in the interests of avoiding ‘proof-texting’. Because otherwise if we want to prove anything – anything at all – from the Bible (or the Qur’an, or anything else), we can do it.

    So, for example, we let the text explain itself. Where it makes more general statements that go beyond the issue at hand (whatever it is we are studying at the moment), and more specific statements which apply only to the issue at hand, we let the more general case guide our interpretation of the specific case – not the other way around. We do not create a doctrine from mere examples. We take examples only once the matter has been established from other evidence.

    3. My mother has for some years been trying to get me to stop taking the Bible as God’s word. She sent me this book called ‘Misquoting Jesus’. I read it, and maybe once upon a time it would have troubled me. But I was amazingly calm and merely said to myself, ‘I have known and lived the New Testament for nearly 30 years. I do not need any human being to tell me whether it is true or not.’

    So that I have a question: Is it possible for a person to really understand a religion if they are not themselves living it? Since you are a Muslim, let me ask specifically: Can someone truly understand Islam if they are not actually living it?

    4. I don’t understand your point that Christians never put forth the Bible as proof that their faith is true. I’ve never had a serious discussion about Christianity without quoting verses. Indeed, entire chapters to get the context. I spent the first few years of my Christian life among people who without exception took the same approach. And I find it only builds my faith to do this. When I discuss spiritual matters with people from other religions, I end up understanding better and better why I am still a Christian.

    I could say much more, but to keep this at least a bit on the short side, let me end here. If you have any responses, feel free…


  4. Abdullah
    August 6, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Thank you for your reply Caraboska.

    Regarding your bottom line on point one, I have to say that I disagree. We can genuinely believe something today and reject it tomorrow. My doubt regarding that woman was if she had ever really been Muslim and not did she really believe in Islam while a Muslim. It is a common missionary tactic for someone to pretend to have left Islam for Christianity, which justifies my suspicion. Moreover, I think it is disingenuous to accuse people that apostate of not really believing as you do not know what their hearts contain.

    Your number two is pure ignorance. Christianity is an Eastern religion full of phrases that belong to that place and that era. If you only read the text you are allowing yourself to interpret the text how your mind wants to, however wrong or right you may be. While a single commentary cannot be taken as the only definitive answer to a particular verse consulting commentaries and reading the text and reading other related scholarly works will help you to lift the fog of a text written in the language of the people 2,000 years (and more) ago. Not consulting commentaries promotes ‘proof-texting’ and does not help against it. The reason that you cannot ‘prove’ anything you want using the Qur’an is because its meanings are clear and there are vast amounts of scholarly works that originate from the Prophet Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa sallam, that details the when, where, why and the meaning of each verse. If someone tries to take a verse out of context that person is easily refuted.

    Regarding your number three. Yes, I think it is possible that someone can understand Islam and not be a Muslim. In fact, I have seen it. You have fallen in the same trap as all the other Christians I have ever spoken with, you don’t need proof for Christianity, in fact you can see evidence of its falsehood but still that does not deter you because you are ‘living it’. There are Hindus with the same mindset as you, they ‘know’ so nothing can persuade them. Do you think that will save them from Hell?

    Regarding number four, that is my own personal experience that is not to say that no Christian thinks the Bible is the proof for their faith but just that I haven’t found a single Christian in a face to face conversation that was willing to put the Bible up as a proof for their faith.

    Thanks again for your reply, I look forward to any future correspondence.


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